Jerry Stafford: How are you feeling today? How is your mood?

Stefano Pilati: There so many reasons not to be well at this moment and also not to really be enjoying anything, because there is too much uncertainty, but for some reason I am kind of everything but sad. I don’t know how to say this: the lack of hope, even before the pandemic, sometimes made me really sad. For me, the lack of hope is almost like a pandemic itself. But, for some reason, right now, I am actually quite hopeful, paradoxically, in a moment when I should be even less hopeful than usual.

Jerry: How long have you been in lockdown for?

Stefano: Oh, you know, maybe six weeks or something. As you know, I live and work in the same place here in Berlin, so, in reality, more like seven years! Allowing myself to work and to live in the same building, or at least the same place, was very new to me, and of course it brought me to this modus vivendi that is very much to do with staying home. I am used to spending lots of time here. I’ve found myself really at ease with this situation, because not much has changed.

Jerry: At the moment, do you have a new daily routine?

Stefano: I already had a set up to organize my daily routine exclusively around my work and around my team. So my routine was very fixed: wake up in the morning, work out, 10 o’clock in the office, stay at the office as long as possible. My daily routine was very organized. So, crazily, what I feel the most is that I had to break my daily routine, due to being alone. Also understanding more than ever the importance of being digital. I know it, but it is very difficult for me to do Photoshop and graphics myself. I am very digital with my team, but not digital myself. So being by myself, my routine has got a bit fucked up. I don’t have anyone in the office. The general thing is to stay home, but I always stay home, so what can I organize? Do I organize my office or my house? Do I do my work? It gives you
the feeling that you are never productive, and I don’t like that. My daily routine now: wake up, have breakfast, maybe go out into the park. I have things to do because I am by myself, so I get this apprehension as well, based on the fact that I never feel productive.

Jerry: But Stefano, you are productive, and you touched on something that we’ll talk about later on, about your engagement, professionally and socially, with social media. We have been talking about the home environment and the daily routine and one of your Instagram posts is in fact entitled ‘Domestic’. Can you explain what is behind this meta-discourse, if I can call it that? It seems particularly pertinent to these times.

Stefano: I don’t know what it is, sometimes I fall in love with the idea of certain words and I realize they haven’t been used or misused, or maybe forgotten. So a long time ago at Saint Laurent, I was obsessed with the word ‘manifesto’ and that kind of provocative and political language. You know, just to show fashion and to connect it to that. And then ‘random’ is another word; I built my brand around it. ‘Domestic’ was something that came into my mind as a question. Like, what does it mean, ‘domestic’? It is your environment; it was the consequence of me living and working here, so that everything became kind of domestic, also in terms of research and dynamic. My team was a domestic team because we were in the house. I fell in love with this word, and then, all of a sudden, I thought that part of branding is also about expressing a bit of intimacy and creating a level of engagement with the public in a way that should be quite personal. And so, for me, personally, when I do ‘domestic,’ slightly naively, I called it an online publication. And I started to create covers and have a theme. And everything was related to having followers understand what was behind certain designs and then to sell those designs. With online and other platforms, you are very short of space to express yourself. Imagery is definitely one thing, but how can you be personal? That is why I introduced my domestic environment. And then the fact that we all use a smartphone, I saw it almost as a challenge to be satisfied with an aesthetic, that I had to choose between just a few tools, a few functions. How can I make it cute? That challenged me, too. I think I did a good job. At the same time, we also had a reaction from followers. Every time I did something it actually pushed up sales. I felt so good about the fact that you can be authentic and domestic and, at the same time, sell your clothes and designs and have a purpose. But I didn’t feel like it was a polluted act of pushing people into consumption. I wanted to give something that was mine and was really personal: my words, my touch, my aesthetics. Not a copy and paste. It’s an effort.

Jerry: Your choice to live in Berlin has been a central part of your work for a long time. How do you feel the city has reacted to the present circumstances, and what do you think of the country’s realpolitik?

Stefano: Listen, I don’t follow German politics because I don’t speak German, so I am always sceptical about making conclusions about it. What I can say, on a very high level – what I know – is that Germany reacted very well, and especially Berlin, because here there is a sense of preserving the space and the people in a way that I haven’t found in other cities. There is a sense of general community in Berlin, and the integration between foreigners in Berlin is really special. Everybody kind of stays low and respects each other. At the same time, Germany decided on a method of flattening the curve that I thought was a very smart choice and came very easily to me for all the reasons I have mentioned. And I live in a park, so if I really want to take a good walk… Of course, the first week I was panicking. I even called you! I was panicking, like, I need space, I need to get out of here and I have been abandoned and blah, blah, blah. Then I guess I stopped that and calmed down.

Jerry: But in your personal and professional lives, you have been profoundly inspired and motivated by what one could call an underground scene. What do you think about the potential threats from the present crisis to this network?

Stefano: The fear I have is that, I guess, I still cannot accept this situation. I cannot believe that from one day to the other, everything that I loved and enjoyed and was part of my life has almost became like a memory. At least if you leave you move from one place to another place. I’m not sad, though. It is still difficult for me to think that those memories are not going to happen again. They are very beautiful feelings. I literally felt empowered. I was surrounded by all my kids; I say ‘my kids’ and everyone will hate me saying that, but this is how I feel. They are very young and out there and there was so much for me to share, and I engage with
them so well. I was kind of supportive of this young dynamic that I never had in my life before. I was really enjoying that, and to think of that as only a memory is a sad thing. Now, the future… I do not think we will go back to what we were. We have to spend time to rebuild what we have lost in this year and a half: lost jobs, lost lives, everything. This city has a very creative culture, and it is an identity as well. I believe that the people who built this were creative people, so there will be a way. Here we also have space. It is a city of space. There are a lot of spaces that haven’t been exploited. Talking about the underground, maybe something else will emerge. Maybe a new house music, that will really be made in the house! I have no idea!

Jerry: On a wider level, a lot of theorists and social thinkers have been saying that what we are experiencing at the moment is as much an unveiling and a
highlighting of existing societal and political problems as it is a new set of what are now widely termed ‘unprecedented challenges’?

Stefano: The challenges now are finally in everybody’s faces. Also, now everybody is saying we need to be more human, more sensitive, and so on, but we should have been that before the pandemic! A lot of people just woke up. I had to change myself, when I moved from where I was to where I am now. It all changed me and alerted me to the fact that I cannot only be defined by my work. Everybody is panicking because it’s like, ‘What next?’ But in a way I have been through that already. I was already deciding not to go out. For me, the only thing that I really, really feel is that it cost me a lot to change, and I could start to see the fruits of that change. So I’m just a bit shocked that it feels like I need to change again! I feel that I am in a good place for this new world, but I have to do much more, and adapt to my age, too. Let’s do it. I’ve already done a lot, but let’s do it. I already took the risks.

Jerry: You mentioned the word ‘manifesto’ earlier. You created your brand Random Identities as a reaction to your experience of a systemized corporate business hierarchy. That hierarchy is now under an immediate and unprecedented threat that is pushing it to the limits of its economic and creative capacities. How do you feel about your manifesto in the light of the present crisis?

Stefano: I am not afraid. I do not even think that there are fewer chances available now than before. If you are emerging now, and you are young, maybe the crisis forces you to be more focused. This is healthy. Especially because you have the privilege not to be part of the corporate thing. The sphere of corporate is shaking, so why pay attention to it? In particular, corporate fashion is important because the revamping of the brands and the houses was like a re-editing of beautiful books. It made them a bit more accessible, like a nice hardback copy. So let’s be part of this restoration of something that should never have been lost. We all need to find our identities. I remember when I met Grace Wales Bonner. It was late at night, but I was, like, ‘Darling, you are 25 years old. Think about your
voice. You have it. And if I can hear it, it is pretty good.’

Jerry: There is a sense of an all-pervading fearfulness across our lives at the moment. Can you access this yourself as an almost liberating feeling, which
also embraces an idea of fearlessness?

Stefano: Oh, yes, I do. Totally. I went through that process, Jerry, and I am scared, I am fearful. Nothing is easy.

Jerry: No, no sure. But the use of clichés like ‘crisis breeds creativity’, for example. I mean, Anna Wintour predictably used it in an interview with Naomi the other day. The other one is that this is a time for reflection and resourcing. They have been ubiquitous these last few weeks. How do you interpret these often meaningless platitudes?

Stefano: Clichés might sometimes sound boring, but in this case, they are correct. We all know that historically we shouldn’t be blasé about certain clichés; they are clichés because they really are meaningful. And it is true that crisis breeds creativity, because it has always been. What we know is that World War Two – the theatre, the marionettes – it was amazing. Schiaparelli, yes, absolutely. And then a political crisis in the UK produced punk. In America, hip-hop was a reaction to a crisis.

Jerry: Your clothes have always in part been a reflection of the socio-political zeitgeist, whether this be gender, labour or race identifying. Will your own design process be affected or impacted by the consequences of the present crisis?

Stefano: Mobility is a factor that will change a lot. There will be fewer occasions to go out, and very selected, which will have an impact on consumption, whose purpose is: ‘I have to go there, so I will buy this because I want to look like that.’ It could be the office, the yoga class, going to pick up the children at school, whatever. All those reasons will be very much reduced. But reduced to what? Dressing up at home? How many times you can go out and where you can go. First of all, I believe that the young generation will adapt in one way or another. A lot of young people haven’t been attacked by the virus because they are more solid by nature. Then, because of the mobility problems, I guess that everything will be restricted, at least for a certain time, to finding inspiration and interactions very locally. What does it mean to be global? This is something we also have to face, especially if you are a young designer. Like, ‘Oh, I have my brand and I need to sell it globally.’ Did you sell it in London? Did you do your job? Buyers won’t go to New York to pick up the latest brands, so everyone will be more supportive locally and
in their own culture. There will also be those who adapt to mobility and non-mobility because they can, because they are supported, because they are young and they are already connected. It is all about them.

Jerry: You have always been someone who believes in what I term ‘chic for chic’s sake’. You believed in the inherent value and importance of a male – or now a more non-specific gender – elegance and sensuality. Is this true?

Stefano: I have always said that I grew up in a moment where chic wasn’t misused. I understood that chic meant more than elegance and cool. For me, it is above everything; it is the ultimate adjective you can apply to someone. You don’t even perceive it, but you know it is there. So cool or not cool, old or new – I don’t care. That’s what’s inspiring. With my clothes you try to push yourself to… not an attitude, an understanding.

Jerry: And have you been particularly attentive to this on a personal level during this lockdown? Do you still feel the need to express yourself through your own style and your relationship with clothes on a daily basis even though you are on your own?

Stefano: Absolutely. I have a lot of clothes, Jerry. A lot of cute clothes. My research into clothes is constant. Even my pattern-maker keeps sending me stuff and ideas that I put into my work. When I try things on, for me, it’s not even an effort. Obviously, I don’t interact with people and this is my house, but I change every day. Every day is another day. Maybe now I am repeating some things, maybe I find myself a little more comfortable… What an awful word! Comfortable!

Jerry: We touched on this earlier, but how has social media been central to your own brand communication over the past few years? Has it prepared you for what will now inevitably become a predominantly digitally driven landscape? You have been developing this for a long time.

Stefano: It was the only thing I had available! And even if I didn’t know it, I took the approach that I didn’t want to be conformist with my eye and my taste. I was
very surprised and happy, to tell you the truth. I had my private account on Instagram, and then I switched and opened my official account, and on both occasions, from my friends and then from broader feedback, people were actually appreciating my layout, my choice of pictures and my messages. And, you know, I enjoyed it. For me, it was a new direction, and I like editing it and thinking about it. What I never got used to, though, is the constant use. I find myself very much in a corner, because on one hand I think the brand needs my input in order to be understood, but on the other hand, it is very time-consuming, and I want to think if I could have someone helping me to do this or to do it for me. Because social media confronts you with transparency because you can’t fake it for long – it is one choice or another. If you use it with a purpose, like mine, it is the only tool I have, and I make it cute and I decided to open up my transparency through this tool. What I love the most is that I can talk about the brand and receive feedback from the people who actually buy the products. That, for me, is heaven. There is not really a strategy; there is an understanding. And at the moment it is also all I have.

Jerry: Ironically, in an age when so much literature has been published about the dangers of surveillance capitalism, this crisis has catapulted us into a situation where we are even more dependent on these platforms, which might indeed become the only sanctuary for creative performance before a mass audience. Can we resist their ubiquity while maintaining an audience?

Stefano: I don’t know – and when you don’t know, there is always a level of danger, isn’t there? I am using social media; I am not defining myself through social media. What I really hope the new generation understands is that real interaction, physical interaction is still so important. That social media is only an extension of yourself; it is not you. Obviously, to have this extension of you, you have to know yourself, you need to perform and be able to use it.

Jerry: Back to the domestic, what’s been your lockdown soundtrack?

Stefano: Miles Davis, John Coltrane and Bill Evans; it is very jazzy. I watched a documentary on Miles Davis and when I watched it I realized how ignorant I was, in the sense that I thought I passively understood the majesty of his music, but I didn’t really interiorize it. In this situation, I feel him; he makes me feel something different. Maybe it is also the purity of an instrument versus a voice.

Jerry: Do you feel that you have been under personal or societal pressure at this time to be proactive and effective? Have you been resisting the urge to do nothing or are you capable of embracing boredom?

Stefano: I am always bored! I have to accept it – I am always bored. I am always questioning, always looking for the unexpected, for what touches me in a way that I would never have even planned. It is definitely not boring to live a life through a pandemic. I wouldn’t describe it as boring, even if something physical makes you think you are getting bored, because you wake up at 11 and you couldn’t care less, and you go for a walk at three o’clock. That for me isn’t a form of boredom.
After this is over, I believe that there will be more of a sense of community, as well. It won’t make me sad that department stores reopen, but it will make me sad if the planet goes back to what it was. In the park, the rhythm of the seasons is something that is so good for your soul. I see the trees in front of my house changing every single day. I see the colours changing, and I see hawks flying over. We cannot go back to where we were. We still have to fight, but wherever it came from, this is a really good push to improve the climate-change situation to a place where it is sustainable. It was relevant before and it is relevant now. But what is tangible is that globally, from New York, to Shanghai, to here, the climate has changed. We can really see it and really feel it on our skin. What will make me really mad and sad is if we go back to normal, saying, ‘It was cute that year we had so much good air.’